Talk:After the Earthquake
Mission page Here is the first mission-only page. I just want to make sure that it looks alright in terms of how people thought it would look. If it is OK, I'll go back and change all the previous episodes to be like this now that I have done extended descriptions of them all. SignorSimon 10:12, 23 May 2008 (UTC) : Well, there's been no reply so I'll go ahead and start doing this. SignorSimon 09:03, 25 May 2008 (UTC) :: This is a good start, but of course there can be a lot more sections added to it. In the past, I've suggested information such as tips, maps, walkthroughs, lists of available weapons and items, enemies and allies, playable characters, easter eggs, bugs, etc. Any of that information would be helpful in a mission page. --Proudhug 13:35, 8 June 2008 (UTC) I wish I would have known about that before I did all this. Well this does basically have a walkthrough, and lists all people involved thereby covering enemies and allies, and lists playable characters. If I'd've noticed bugs, I would've made a background info and notes section, but I don't remember seeing any. SignorSimon 13:42, 8 June 2008 (UTC) :: Well, I mentioned it on your talk page back in December. A walkthrough and a synopsis aren't the same thing. A walkthrough explains to the gamer how to get through the level and what to do. --Proudhug 15:36, 12 June 2008 (UTC) Why are you removing the episode links? SignorSimon 17:16, 12 June 2008 (UTC) : Proudhug I believe the latest round of changes you made to some of these articles is detrimental in 3 cases. I don't propose a series of rollbacks, just selective reverts on the following things: first, you removed some of the asterisks+numbers from the categories, which absolutely wreaks havoc over in Category:The Game missions. This category was previously organized chronologically, now it's part alphabetical (which is useless). Second you also removed the References Template. This template can very easily be retooled to include the enemies and allies, playable characters you yourself suggested. Third, (I mentioned this also over in Template talk:References), some of the Game Hours are unlinked now. You removed the links but still left the bare text hours there. I don't understand what this accomplishes. – Blue Rook 20:20, 12 June 2008 (UTC)talk I don't see the point in the missions being listed chronologically. Almost every other category lists its articles alphabetically, with some minor exceptions (this is the default, afterall). Besides, they already appear in chronological order on the main page for The Game, so doesn't that make the category useless? There aren't going to be other items in this category, so this is the only place where you can look them up by title, rather than by order of play. How is this useless? : (I figured I'd answer these piece by piece since it's already in neat paragraphs.) The "minor exceptions" to alphabetical categories that you mention, the flagship of which is Category:Episodes, is ironically exactly what I had in mind when I took issue with the recent changes you made. Missions are to The Game as Episodes are to the TV show, so it seems logical to follow the precedent of the Episodes category and list them chronologically. Also, if you read that part again, I wasn't claiming that "alphabetical categorization" is useless, just the fact that it was "part alphabetical" (my fault, could have been more clear there). If you feel that it is better to have them listed alphabetically since they are not listed elsewhere as such, that sounds logical overall. (I'm also hoping to hear what Simon thinks). :: The only reason we list the episodes in chronological order instead of alphabetical is because the alphabetical order looks like crap and no one would conceivably want to look up an episode title alphabetically. The titles are all to similar-looking when listed together. Mission titles, however, are quite distinct-looking, so they're conceivable to look up alphabetically. :: Also, the only reason the list is partially alphabetical is because I didn't finish changing them all, so most of them are still chronological. --Proudhug 01:52, 13 June 2008 (UTC) I hadn't noticed before that "playable characters" already appears in the sidebar, which is fine. As for enemies and allies, this might be fine in a chart, but if it is, it'll certainly need to be redesigned and renamed, so the current obsolete template will be deleted anyway. The template was created ages ago for the episode pages, but we decided against it. : I'll work on a new template for that area to replace the References. For the time being, however, would you mind leaving those References tables in there? They will serve as a great ready-made table I will be able to cut and paste from when I eventually start plugging in the new tables. While I'm on this topic, what do you think should go into the list table that replaces References? I think it should have Allies on the top (with the Playable Character bolded and listed first), Enemies listed underneath, Things third for weapons and items (or should we separate them?), and finally Places listed fourth. :: A chart probably won't work. Each character should be listed as either an ally or an enemy, who the voice actor is, if known (sort of like the dramatis personae), and possibly what weapons or items they use or their significance to the mission. A list of weapons and items, with notes on where and how to obtain them would be useful. I'm not sure how places would be beneficial, since each mission only takes place in one location anyway. That could go in the sidebar, I guess, but I really don't see how it'd be useful. --Proudhug 01:52, 13 June 2008 (UTC) And since the whole point of creating the mission pages is to replace the episode pages, it makes no sense to include the References template on them. There is no such thing as "24: The Game 10:00pm-11:00pm". What is this? It's a segment of time which includes three missions. It's not a separate article. As I've said numerous times, The Game is divided into missions, not episodes. The TV series is divided into separate episodes which air on different dates and are separate tracks on the DVDs. The Game missions are separate playable areas which can be individually selected in the game. You can't select "24: The Game 10:00pm-11:00pm" because it doesn't exist as anything anymore than "Day 4 3:44pm-4:29pm" does. Now that we have articles for the missions, the "hour" articles can be deleted, as they serve no purpose. The mission pages already indicate when each one takes place, as does the main The Game article. : I do certainly follow that The Game is Mission-, and not Hour-, based. I also understand that "Day 4 3:44pm-4:29pm" is a useless and arbitrary time frame, but aren't the Game Hours more useful than that? They actually do exist, and you confirmed this by leaving them (albeit unlinked) in the mission pages. The Game isn't hour-based, true, but those hours do exist. : Since the Game happens in a 24-hour period, and this happens to be one of the themes of the entire series, isn't it noteworthy enough to note this in those small Hour articles? If the Game creators took the time to have each mission fall partially or wholly into an hour slot, surely that's something, so what would be the harm in keeping those little pages. :: Yes, clearly The Game tries to emulate the show by announcing each hour, but so do the novels. Do we really want to set a precedent and fabricate "episodes" for The Game or novels, just because the show is divided that way? I don't think we do. We create articles for each specific thing, but the hours of The Game don't actually exist as such any more than the hours of the novels and comics do. It's fine to indicate which hour a mission takes place in, but we don't need an actual article for the hour. --Proudhug 01:52, 13 June 2008 (UTC) I realize 24 is a show about time, but that doesn't mean we have articles about each time period. We have articles about each item related to 24. An episode is one item, as is a Game mission. If 24 was a half-hour show, the articles would be titled "Day 1 12:00am-12:30am", etc. We wouldn't group two episode together into one article just because it makes an hour, so why would we do this with The Game? One Shot is listed as one item not twenty-four different hours. Likewise, Nightfall is listed as five items, because that's how it is divided. : Right, and we're still leaving The Game divided into Missions, not into Hours anymore. At this point I'm simply wondering what is wrong with leaving those Game Hours up as pointers since they do exist in the Game. :: As I said above, the "hours" also exist in the novels, but we don't create separate articles for each chapter. --Proudhug 01:52, 13 June 2008 (UTC) ::: All new replies are here. You're point about the hours in the novel was all I needed to hear. So, in summary, we will delete Category:24: The Game hours and every Hour page in it, and also the References template, yes? Finally, with regards to the Dramatis Personae list you have in mind, I think especially on that issue if you could make one all nice with bells and whistles as an example, Simon and I (and others?) could help with the rest. – Blue Rook 07:27, 13 June 2008 (UTC)talk :::: Yes and yes. I'll see what I can come up with for the characters thing. I'm not picturing anything too fancy (I never do; I leave that to the more wiki savvy), but I'll find a mission with a good example. --Proudhug 13:20, 13 June 2008 (UTC) I apologize for not explain my actions before doing them. I'd planned to go through and "finish" the formatting of the mission pages (or at least get one done as an example), so I'd just begun paving the way for how I imagine they should look. Hopefully I get time in the next few days to work more on it. --Proudhug 20:51, 12 June 2008 (UTC) : No worries of course. Just glad you're back. :D – Blue Rook 00:40, 13 June 2008 (UTC)talk